103 thoughts on “Charles Laughton Movies”

1. HELLO AGAIN JOHN 1 There was no mistake. My post was meant for you as you had just written to me but regretfully the situation is a familiar one. Bruce and I were having a friendly debate in which you rightly identified his attitude as tongue in cheek but concluded incredulously that what I said had to be treated as being in deadly earnest though a lot of it was plainly daft, and as you disagreed with what you thought was my thrust you decided as is your wont that I had to be confronted about the error of my ways and put in my box with a lecture about Myrna Loy’s war effort which I had never questioned. Doubting the hyperbole about Hitler being overly concerned about a Hollywood star whether or not I am correct in so doubting takes nothing away from whatever war service Myrna Loy did provide and since you had now taken my part in the fun debate so seriously I was interested in teasing out what actual weight YOU attached to her contribution given that others such as Stewart, Gable and Leslie Howard had served.

   3 You may recall that on a previous occasion I expressed concern about your taking to heart everything I said and you assured me that you were not so doing. Anyhow the following YOU can seriously:

   (1) I do not believe that Myrna Loy was the most successful box office actress of all time but was simply one of a number of popular actresses who were valuable in the cinema of the Hollywood Classic Era.

   (2) I admire her for her courageous stand on behalf of African Americans. I am always on guard against excessive propaganda particularly in wartime surrounding celebs but her humanitarian ethos suggests that she would have done her best to be as proactive as possible but whilst I am certain that Hitler would not have liked people such as she I doubt if with everything else that was going on around him he would have thought too much about her.

   (3) Anything else that I have said about Myrna was probably for the birds. Now can we have some fun again on this site?

   Reply

   1. Bob

      Hi Bob. Remember, I said nothing at all about Hitler. That was Bruce. I only brought up that Loy was a favorite of Roosevelt to counter your post that Deanna Durbin was a favorite of Churchill and Anne Frank. It seemed to me a mild tongue-in-cheek rebuttal.

      As for Loy’s work during the war, I have posted to Cogerson about James Stewart with I think Gable mentioned, but also concerning Power, Fonda, and others not mentioned, that many made strong career sacrifices to help with the war effort. In fairness to Loy, and all hyperbole aside, her career was in high gear when the war broke out. The general public in a Gallup poll rated her in 1941 the third most popular Hollywood actress behind only Bette Davis and Ginger Rogers. Giving years in her box-office prime to work with the Red Cross is a fact for her, as giving prime years to the war effort is a fact for Stewart and Gable and many others.

      I think any serious historian of Hollywood in those years has to take these facts into account.

      There was no lecture in my original comment. I only quoted Roddy McDowell on Loy and her Red Cross service during WWII as that quote was prominent in the People Magazine article, and I judge gave valuable perspective on Loy and her career. He was a friend telling the truth. Frankly, your reaction to what McDowell said seems excessive.

      Reply

      1. In response to your unnumbered paragraphs

         FIrst. (1) I never said you brought up Hitler (2) .Why did you feel the NEED to rebut/counter? Common sense should have told you we were only larking about by mentioning Dillinger, Hitler, Godwin’s Law and Sandra Bullock’s agent., Do you enjoy turning good natured banter into confrontations?

         Second. There you go again – another lecture and back to Gallup polls

         Third. Patronising. – but I presume that “any serious historian” if he took account of Galllup polls would also want a balanced picture by looking at who had the most entries in Quigley, who won the Oscars and who made the AFI legends lists, who were the top billed stars and so on. You seem to feel that your idea of what historian take into account is definitive.

         Fourth Lots of stars say complimentary things about their friends but If my reaction was strong it was not to anything McDOWELL said and nobody else seems to evoke an “excessive” response from me.

         My overall view is that you sought to take sides in what you mistakenly thought was a serious argument one side of which you favoured. Normally that’s fine but it would be better if it was accompanied by a sense of humour.

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         1. Bob

            Hi Bob. This is getting to be fun. I like hot and heavy debates.

            “I never said you brought up Hitler.”

            Perhaps not, but in your post of 4/17/2017, 3:30 PM, which is addressed to “John” you use Hitler as an arguing point twice.

            “Why do you feel the NEED to rebut/counter?”

            Two reasons. I enjoy this sort of thing. And I fundamentally disagree with your take on Loy.

            “patronising” “You seem to feel that your idea of what historians take into account is definitive.”

            Here is what I said–“Giving years in her box-office prime to work with the Red Cross is a fact for her, as giving prime years to the war effort is a fact for Stewart and Gable and many others. I think any serious historian of Hollywood in those years has to take these facts into account.”

            “I think” and later “I judge” indicates this is only my opinion. It does not imply this is the ONLY or even the primary facts an historian should take into account. Only that for me these are facts he should take into account. Note that these facts are about service in the war.

            As for my original comment I would advise everyone to re-read it. It is my post on April 17, 2017 at 8:33 AM. The quotes are from a People Magazine article. I don’t understand why the quotes on Roosevelt are “deadly serious.” I thought them funny all the way. The second quote by McDowell touched on what Loy did in the war. I did address that post to you, and I regret that. I should have addressed it to Cogerson. There certainly would have been less flak.

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            1. 🙂

2. John
   1 This just goes to show you could probably get many sources that would confirm that X idolised Y and so on. Roosevelt by the law of averages is bound to have liked SOMEBODY in movies but that’s just his personal taste and does it make that person better than say John F Kennedy’s favourite movie star or even yours? Rock Hudson’s favourite movie star was Spencer Tracy so does that nullify the opinion of Tony Curtis who favoured Cary Grant or Martin Sheen who idolised George C Scott? Thar Roddy McDowell might have admired Loy is neither here nor there. Does that make Myrna better than Sean Connery whom Michael Caine likes and admires? Anyway many people are always willing to gush platitudes and sentiment about the rich and famous so remember Burt Lancaster’s advice in The Crimson Pirate “Believe nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see”

   2 Also where a celebrity is concerned we must be on guard against hyperbole because of the publicity value in a celebrity’s name and politicians have been known to exploit that. The writer and columnist Malcolm Muggeridge claimed that US politicians used and exploited the Duke.A lot of what you believe can come down to common sense Do you honestly believe that Loy made any difference to the war effort and she deserves mor credit than those on the front line who laid down their lives?

   3 By comparison when Time magazine listed its 100 Greatest People of the 20th Century only 4 entertainers were included Sinatra, Brando, Monroe and Chaplin and that was for artistic achievements {whatever one personally may think of those] not for ‘saving the world’.

   4 Conversely Rosa Parks an US ordinary citizen was listed as one of the 100 for her influence in relation to Civil Rights which involved real hardship and even terror for her and her achievements were solid and not the sentimental fantasy of some Hollywood publicity machine. However if you feel that Loy ‘saved the world’ obviously she too obviously should have been included so if you have evidence of that maybe you should write to Time magazine and ask them to revise their list.

   5 In conclusion it seems that we have reached the juncture where Roosevelt may have liked Loy, Churchill and Anne Frank are said to have preferred my Deanna and Louis B Mayer, Clark Gable and James Stewart are reputed to have been a great friend of my Joan. So as Greg said to Chuck in the Big Country after hours of physical combat had exhausted the pair “Now what have we proved?” Seems to me we are in a Mexican standoff and I think that what’s need now is for Bruce to issue an edict that he will edit out the next post that mentions Myrna Loy – or Hitler!

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   1. Bob

      I am not certain why my post pushed your buttons to such an extent. You brought up Churchill and Anne Frank in response to Cogerson’s tongue-in-cheek (I think) reference to Dillinger. I only responded by bringing up Roosevelt’s admiration for Loy. I agree that none of this matters.

      Roddy McDowell and his quote does matter. No one is claiming Loy won the war or sacrificed the most and to me such an insinuation as an arguing point is puerile. What is important is that Loy, like many, many others in many nations, put service to her country and humanity ahead of her career. I think it important to acknowledge that sacrifice whether by her, or by all of the others.

      Reply

      1. HI JOHN
         1 If you read the posts carefully you will see that it was actually I who first mentioned Dillinger and it WAS tongue and cheek. I mean do you really think anyone could be serious in comparing you, Steve and Bruce to a gangster like Dillinger as I was playfully doing?

         2 Bruce light-heartedly responded about Dillinger being a fan of Myrna to the extent Dillinger was prepared to die to see her movie and then I in the spirit of the matter reminded him that he had told us about Churchill and Anne Frank idolising my Deanna and I humorously implied that and it was obviously better to have a statesman and war heroine as a fan than a gangster

         3 . Bruce then upped the ante with spoof remarks about Myrna saving the world against Hitler to which I teased him about applying Godwin’s Law and thus losing the argument under Internet Rules of Engagement. That’s when you burst out of your cage and it all turned serious. I mean do you honestly think that I took an intelligent person like Bruce seriously when he joked about an actress saving the world ** and when he quipped about Dillinger’s dying words being about Myrna Loy’s movies?. You must think I’m as mad as Hitler was. **It reminded me of the line in To Be or Not to Be about a ham actor [Jack Benny] saving Poland from Hitler

         4. What was completely serious about in all of these exchanges was my praise for Myrna’ campaigns on behalf of civil rights.

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         1. Bob

            If I was confused about your point, you are ultimately to blame. In a post addressed to “John” and not to “Bruce” you said,

            “Do you honestly believe that Loy made any difference in the war effort and she deserves more credit than those on the front lines who laid down their lives?”

            I never implied any such thing in any of my posts. No offense, but you have a tendency to bounce back and forth between fellows you are debating, which is confusing.

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   2. CORRECTION:
      In my previous post I said that only 4 entertainers had been included in Time Magazine’s list of the perceived 100 Most Important People of the 20th Century. The 4 that I mentioned were the only 4 on the list who were considered to have had TOP ACTING careers in the last century but others in the entertainment industry were listed for different and varying justifications – Lucille Ball for TV Louis Armstrong for music, Bruce Lee for being a cultural action icon, Louis B Mayer and Walt Disney for technical contributions. However anyone interested in the full list which includes the likes politicians,sportsmen and intellectuals of all sorts can quickly google it up.

      Reply

3. HI BRUCE

   1 Just as virtually every major star is credited with saving his/her studio from bankruptcy at one time or another the permanent Hollywood publicity machine has credited many of them with being the scourge of tyrants who are perceived to be the enemy of the Free World. For example Mao Tse-tung was said to be frightened of Wayne – now that I could believe ! – and Richard Nixon is alleged to have been terrified of Paul Newman.

   2 However maybe for once the publicity about Loy/Hitler is accurate because historians point to the paradox in the Third Reich being that it loved animals and in fact Adolf actually brought in animal protection legislation and the Fuhrer was said to be a lover of the arts. So is there a connection between his alleged hatred of Loy and his being a connoisseur of the arts – or is it simply that an ancestor of Sandra Bullock’s agent was working for Myrna at the time?

   3 We shall probably never know but it is nonetheless interesting that you have departed from what James Coburn might no doubt regard as your usual creative interpretation of Myrna’s grosses and applied Godwin”s Law and here’s what Wikipedia says about that law:

   (1) “American attorney and author Mike Godwin coined his eponymous law on Usenet in 1990
   Godwin’s law (or Godwin’s rule of Hitler analogies) is an Internet adage which asserts that ‘As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Hitler approaches that is, if an online discussion (REGARDLESS OF THE TOPIC OR SCOPE) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare or relate someone or something to Hitler.’

   (2) There are many corollaries to Godwin’s law, For example, there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned Hitler first has automatically lost whatever debate was in progress.. This principle is itself frequently referred to as Godwin’s law.”

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4. BRUCE

   I don’t know a copy of my copy of my 4.57am post got onto Charlize’s page. Perhaps when you have a moment you would delete it from there. For one thing I don’t want John contaminating that page as he has done with poor Charle Laughton’s. Many thanks BOB

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   1. Fixed.

      Reply

5. JOHN/BRUCE/STEVE
   1 I meant to say that I thought that George Gabby Hayes was another good pick though possibly he was not as versatile as some of the others you’ve mentioned. I read that he did at one point play a few villains in westerns but anytime I have ever seen him he was simply the sycophantic eccentric stooge to the likes of the Duke or Randy Scott.

   2 In the era of the B movie cowboy there seemed to be a raft of those types around whose sole function was to follow the hero about, subordinate themselves to his interests and make us all laugh. Wikipedia called them the “comic cowboy sidekicks” and along with Hayes Wikipedia cites as being in that bracket Smiley Burnette, Fuzzy Knight, Andy Clyde and Big Andy Devine. They always seemed to me to be the cowboys’ muddled, humorous version of Dr Watson.

   3 I remember that in at least one Roy Rogers film Roy and Devine rode into town and the heroine asked Roy over to supper and he accepted and asked Andy to take care of the horses. Andy protested “Ahhh Roy!” but was then seen obediently leading the horses off to the stable while Rogers strolled away with the girl who made cow eyes at him..

   4 Certainly in terms of stardom Hayes for one knew his limitations. At one point in his career he was so popular that a magazine journalist asked him why he didn’t press for lead roles and he indicated that he knew his niche by replying that he thought he would probably be finished if he did that as the public were familiar with him in the sidekick roles and didn’t want to see him as the star. That consideration and the other points we have covered raises certain interesting question in my mind such as in The Thin Man series was M-s Loy really Nick Charles’ Watson, a sexy version of Nigel Bruce to Bill Powell’s Holmes, in the Gable movies was she in reality fulfilling the function of Gable’s non-western sidekick and should we not be giving Myrna credit for possessing the same wisdom as G G Hayes?

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   1. Hey Bob…..lots of good information here……a list of character actors would end up in the 1000s…..but I think we have covered most of the greats……Andy Devine, Nigel Bruce and Hayes are fine additions.

      Good stories on Devine and Hayes….thanks for sharing this information. 🙂

      Reply

   2. Bob

      Well, when one walks about the pasture in darkness one is likely to step into something.

      You just made a very good case for Myrna Loy as a box office queen w/o realizing it.

      Over at The Old Corral website, they have the popularity polls for the cowboy stars which were done between 1936 and 1955. It is done by the theatre owners like the Quigley polls. Gabby Hayes was very much a box office force. He was in the top ten 11 times. In the top five 9 times. Here are some sample years–

      1943
      1—–Roy Rogers
      2—–William Boyd
      3—–Smiley Burnette
      4—–Gabby Hayes
      5—–John Mack Brown
      9—–Bill Elliott

      1945
      1—–Roy Rogers
      2—–Gabby Hayes
      3—–William Boyd
      4—–Bill Elliott
      5—–Smiley Burnette
      6—–John Mack Brown

      1949
      1—–Roy Rogers
      2—–Gene Autry
      3—–Gabby Hayes
      5—–Bill Elliott
      7—–William Boyd
      8—–John Mack Brown

      Note that despite being a “supporting” actor in William Elliott westerns in 1943 and 1944, it was Hayes who was judged by the theatre owners to be the bigger draw. And the same is true of Smiley Burnette with Charles Starratt.
      When TV came in, the aging Hayes easily moved over and had his own show(s) for years., while western leads such as Bill Elliott and Allan Lane and Lash LaRue found their pilots didn’t sell.

      Reply

      1. JOHN:

         “You just made a very good case for Myrna Loy as a box office queen w/o realising it.”

         As Inspector Harry Callahan said to the vigilante group who tell him that they thought that because of his maverick reputation he might wish to join their number:

         “You have misunderstood me.”

         Reply

         1. Hey Bob…the way I read it….you have finally seen the side of my argument….and you finally agree….I am so glad we have this resolved. Welcome to the the club…just give an address and I will send you some t-shirts, bumper stickers and pens that read “Myrna Loy Biggest Box Office Actress of All-Time:…..lol.

            Reply

            1. HI BRUCE

               1 Glad you’re pleased and as the saying goes “Better a fool’s paradise than no paradise at all.” Certainly it seems that you John and Steve are in grand company because Myrna was reportedly the favourite actress of the gangster John Dillinger.

               2 However what I will give her unreserved credit for is-

               “Throughout her career she championed the rights of black actors and of black character to be depicted with dignity on film.” [Wikipedia]

               3 Consider also the following quote from Wikipedia:

               “In addition to her fame as a comedian Rosalind Russell was known for playing character roles.”

               You see it’s as Clint Eastwood said in one of his detective thrillers “Opinions are like a** ****s everybody’s got one.”

            2. I think that Dillinger died trying to see a Loy movie should be the final nail in the coffin point. His last words were “Glad my last movie was one that starred Myrna Loy”. lol 🙂

      2. Hey John….thanks for sharing this information. Not thinking Bob realizes his Loy implication…lol.

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         1. “Dillinger died trying to see a Loy movie.”

            1 “Alas poor Myrna!” regretfully for her it didn’t end there as to this day she continues to attract fans who lack all sense of proportion in relation to matters concerning her.

            2 So Dillinger was a fan of M-s Loy according to Cogerson. However –

            “Deanna Durbin was Prime Minister Winston Churchill and Anne Frank’s favorite movie star. Churchill reportedly insisted that he be permitted to screen her films privately before they were released to the public in Britain, and would often screen her film 1937’s One Hundred Men and a Girl to celebrate British victories during World War II” [Lifted straight from No 7 of the Possibly Interesting Facts about Deanna Durbin on her Cogerson page]

            3 So one star was idolised by a vicious gangster and the other by a worldwide renowned statesman and a war heroine. To paraphrase Bruce Willis when at the end of Striking Distance he at last gets the better of the mysterious villain who has long been taunting him from the shadows “Who’s on top now?”

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            1. Hey Bob….well Hitler hated Loy…..I am sure he spent many hours thinking of ways to get rid of Loy…..that time devoted to getting rid of Loy is probably one of the reasons he lost the war….which means Loy saved the world. So like Bruce Willis she is a world saver only she did it in real life. I think the birth of Myrna Loy should be become not only a national holiday here but a worldwide holiday too! Lol.

            2. Bob

               Well, according to a People Magazine article from 1987, Dillinger wasn’t her only fan.

               “She was Roosevelt’s favorite actress.”

               ‘We carried on a long-distance infatuation throughout World War II.’ Myrna remembers, as light rain patters at the window. ‘He was always sending me telegrams, trying to get me to come to Washington. But I could never go when he was there. The times I did get there, he was gone. It’s a very sad story.’ She thinks it over. ‘Probably very lucky.’ ”

               The article makes another point about Myrna’s career. The stats on this board indicate how the movie box-office boomed during WWII. Loy managed to be in movies which sold more tickets than any other actress despite not staying in Hollywood during the war.

               “During World War II she worked full-time for the Red Cross. ‘It’s astonishing to think,’ says Roddy McDowell, a close friend, ‘that at the peak of her success, she quit acting. She made only one film during World War II, devoting her entire time to the war effort. It was like she was in the service.'”

               Nor did it stop there. During the 1950’s & 1960’s, she worked for UNICEF.

               Unlike some divas, Loy wasn’t totally wrapped up in her career or in her fame.

   3. Bob & Cogerson

      Just on Hayes as an actor. You bring up an interesting point that he became popular for playing a character named “Gabby’ in every movie, so much so that to the public he was Gabby and not George Hayes. But if you watch his pre-Hoppy movies, he was a versatile actor who moved between different sorts of roles rather easily–Southern Colonel, Irishman, dignified banker, evil outlaw, town drunk. In the Hoppy series William Boyd was impressed with his talent and wanted him as a regular (his characters ha been killed off in a couple of early entries). The character he developed and which became a regular sidekick to Hoppy was Windy. When he went to Republic he continued playing Windy but under the new name Gabby which kept him working and popular with the public well into the TV era.
      So the bottom line is he was a competent and versatile character actor who discovered an “unusual and eccentric” part which struck gold with the public and so played that part for the rest of his life.
      The real man seems to have been much different. Not so long ago I saw him on you tube in a live guest appearance on a panel show in the 1950’s and he came across as a well-spoken man, with none of the garbled saddle-rat argot of his movie roles. Rogers mentioned in an interview how different the real man was from his movie image and that Gabby never much liked Roy’s cowboy music, preferring Bruckner symphonies.

      Gabby reminds me of a story Dick Cavett told about John Wayne. In an interview with Wayne he found that they shared an interest in Noel Coward and that Wayne could quote Coward at length. Cavett mentioned his surprise to Woody Allan. Woody replied, “You found out what you should have known. That he is an actor.”

      Reply

      1. Hey John….your massive movie knowledge really comes out in this comment. I am so glad that you discovered this website….your contributions are greatly appreciated. Gabby, Hoppy, Windy….very interesting stuff. Good Wayne/Cavett/Coward story. 🙂

         Reply

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